As I mentioned previously the issue of making the beracha of borei mi'orei haeish for my daughters is more complicated.
Issue #1. Even if a woman is chayav in havdala is she woman obligated to make this beracha.
Issue #2: The Chazon Ish writes in Orach Chaim Siman 37 that there is no arvus by the beracha of borei minei besamim or borei mi'orei haeish. Therefore, by besamim someone who has already made havdala could not make this beracha for someone else unless he also smells the besamim. However, when it comes to the beracha on fire it is not a berchas hanehnin and therefore getting ha'na'ah from the fire would not help. According to this you could never make the beracha of mi'orei haeish for someone else if you already were yotzei in havdala.
I should point out that it seems the Mishna Berura would argue on this. The Mishna Berura writes in the Sha'ar HaTziyon in Siman 297 that one could make a beracha on the aish even if you already heard havdala.
It would seem the following would come out based on the above.
a) if you are making havdala for a woman, since anyway it is a shaylah if she should make the beracha on fire and according to the Chazon Ish there is no arvus by this beracha, perhaps she should make the beracha herself or don't make it at all.
b) if you are making havdala for a man, then according to the Chazon Ish there is no arvus by this beracha and the person you are making it for should say it himself. (whether you can answer amein is a shaylah in the Shmiras Shabbos due to hefsek). It would seem according to teh Mishan Berura that you could make the beracha for someone else.
c) Making it for kids: This same Chazon Ish points out there is a difference between making a berachas hanehnin for an adult and a child. By an adult unless you get hana'ah you can't be motzei someone else in this beracha. By a child you can make this beracha m'tzad chinuch even if yuo get no ha'na'ah at all. Therefore, by the beracha on aish even if there is no arvus you can make it for a child since you can make the beracha m'din chinuch.
It would seem thast even for a girl you can make this beracha m'din chinuch on the tzad that woman can make this beracha. The Children in Halacha book actually says you can make this beracha for kids and doesn't differentiate between girls and boys. It might be better for the girl to make this beracha herself but I can hear more of a reason to make it for a girl than for a woman.
Friday, November 23, 2007
Monday, November 19, 2007
Making Havdalah For My Daughters
I just realized I haven't posted anything since Parshas Lech Lecha. I have been busy at work and I was out of town last week. Hopefully, things are calming down and I should be posting more frequently.
This past motzei Shabbos my 2 older girls both under bas mitzvah missed havdala and I had to make it for them again. However, I initially wasn't sure if I could make it for them. (The truth is in retrospect I am not sure why I was so mesupak but here is what I found). The first question I had was the age old question of making havdalah for a woman when you have already heard havdalah. It is questionable if a woman has an obligation to hear havdalah. Therefore, if a man has already fullfilled his obligation, arvus might not apply and he might not be able to be motzei a woman. The Mishna Berura brings down both opinions and says it is better for the woman to make it herself. It wasn't clear to me what the Mishan Berura would say where the woman can't make havdalah. I wasn't sure which side the Mishna Berura liked better. (Maybe someone out there can convince me either way). The Aruch HaShulchan however is very adamant that if the woman can't make havdalah then a man can make it for her.
What was also interesting is how th e Mishna Berura and Aruch HaShulchan both viewed the "issur" of a woman drinking the wine. The Mishna Berura quoted an acharon that asked how can a woman make havadala if she can't drink teh wine. The obvious answer (at least to me) would be to say that what kind of question is that, not drinking wine is only a minhag and of course she can drink the wine when there is no other choice. This is what the Aruch HaShulchan says (using strong language). The Mishna Berura on the other hand seems to accept the question as legitimate.
The next question that I had was does the fact that my girls were not bas mitzvah make a difference. Again I am not sure why I thought this would matter but for some reason I was bothered by it. I found that when it comes to the beracha of besamim, if you are smelling the besamim then you can make the beracha. However, if for some reason you can't smell them, then the Shmiras Shabbos says that the ketanim should make the beracha after havdalah. Teh idea is that for them to make the beracha in the middle of havdalah would be a hefsek. (I have to look it up again to see what the sevarah is).
The beracha on the fire was also a little complicated and I need to look it up again before writing it down here. Stay tuned. Hopefully I will get back to it.
This past motzei Shabbos my 2 older girls both under bas mitzvah missed havdala and I had to make it for them again. However, I initially wasn't sure if I could make it for them. (The truth is in retrospect I am not sure why I was so mesupak but here is what I found). The first question I had was the age old question of making havdalah for a woman when you have already heard havdalah. It is questionable if a woman has an obligation to hear havdalah. Therefore, if a man has already fullfilled his obligation, arvus might not apply and he might not be able to be motzei a woman. The Mishna Berura brings down both opinions and says it is better for the woman to make it herself. It wasn't clear to me what the Mishan Berura would say where the woman can't make havdalah. I wasn't sure which side the Mishna Berura liked better. (Maybe someone out there can convince me either way). The Aruch HaShulchan however is very adamant that if the woman can't make havdalah then a man can make it for her.
What was also interesting is how th e Mishna Berura and Aruch HaShulchan both viewed the "issur" of a woman drinking the wine. The Mishna Berura quoted an acharon that asked how can a woman make havadala if she can't drink teh wine. The obvious answer (at least to me) would be to say that what kind of question is that, not drinking wine is only a minhag and of course she can drink the wine when there is no other choice. This is what the Aruch HaShulchan says (using strong language). The Mishna Berura on the other hand seems to accept the question as legitimate.
The next question that I had was does the fact that my girls were not bas mitzvah make a difference. Again I am not sure why I thought this would matter but for some reason I was bothered by it. I found that when it comes to the beracha of besamim, if you are smelling the besamim then you can make the beracha. However, if for some reason you can't smell them, then the Shmiras Shabbos says that the ketanim should make the beracha after havdalah. Teh idea is that for them to make the beracha in the middle of havdalah would be a hefsek. (I have to look it up again to see what the sevarah is).
The beracha on the fire was also a little complicated and I need to look it up again before writing it down here. Stay tuned. Hopefully I will get back to it.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)